"The Turkish Foreign Minister and the US Secretary of State always talk about the Caucasus region in their conversations. I think you also met with Trump, could the US position have any role in this peace process? Because if we look at it from another perspective, from a certain point of view, under the conditions of Trump's presence, according to some interpretations, many countries may prefer the so-called disorderly world. Or let's say some regional developments, conflicts, the war between Russia and Ukraine, a possible ceasefire, etc., are interpreted differently. Therefore, as for that opportunity, the window you pointed out, in your opinion, are there such factors in the world and the region, such developments that can be an obstacle to that opportunity, that window," one of the Turkush journalistst stated during the interview with Armenia's Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan.
"And I want to understand if peace with Azerbaijan, which is not yet visible on the horizon, but the absence of Azerbaijan-Armenia relations hinders the development of relations between Armenia and Turkey. Can you clarify the arguments used against the pessimists you mentioned a little more, because in the end, a normalization between Armenia and Turkey has not yet been secured? You say that it is a matter of time, of course, some positive signals and messages have come from Turkey, and is this what you accept as a basis to say that it is a matter of time? I do not want to repeat, but it seems that the longer peace with Azerbaijan is delayed, the Armenia-Turkey relations will continue to remain unsettled. Don't you see this risk?" the journalist asked.
"I would like to disagree with that formulation that Armenia-Azerbaijan peace is not visible on the horizon. I will say that it is simply a constant attempt to bring smokescreen along the horizon so that peace is not visible. In fact, very important pillars of peace have been laid between Armenia and Azerbaijan. I have already mentioned one of the pillars.
Armenia and Azerbaijan, in fact, agreed to recognize each other's territorial integrity and sovereignty on the basis of the 1991 Alma-Ata Declaration. This is what should be visible on the horizon. Moreover, this reality has been reconfirmed in the agreed articles of the draft peace treaty, they sides have recorded that they have no territorial claims to each other and mutually undertake not to make such territorial claims in the future. This is very clearly visible on the horizon, but now you will ask, what is that smokescreen? The smokescreen is the narrative about "western Azerbaijan," because when we have reached an agreement that we recognize each other's territorial integrity, then there should be no talk of "western Azerbaijan."
The trials taking place in Baku are a smokescreen, which have one goal, at least that’s our perception, to nullify the achievements that we have had in the peace process, because we have been negotiating the peace process for four years and we have results. I have already said that we do not record it, we are constantly focused on the peace agreement, which is of course an important cornerstone, but the fact that Armenia and Azerbaijan have signed an international document and ratified it in both countries is already a fact and a reality. Moreover, we have demarcated border areas. And here is the problem: what path do we take from this point? I, if you were paying attention, said that if we are consistent in our efforts, that path, that project is already on the table, it remains only not to abandon that project. In essence, we do not need to build much new at this stage, we only need to not destroy what has been recorded. This is what we are talking about.
Yes, we also understand the sensitivities and specificities that exist in Turkey-Azerbaijan relations. It is impossible to deny this, but on the other hand, I have already said that we also have processes in Armenia-Turkey relations. And I just realized that in the first seven minutes, when I was mentioning the events in Armenia-Turkey relations, I left out things that I could have said, reaching 10, 11, 12, 15 minutes. Moreover, for two years in a row now, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Armenia has participated in the Antalya Diplomatic Conference. After the devastating earthquake, the Minister of Foreign Affairs visited the disaster zone in Turkey, we sent humanitarian assistance, it is good that we sent humanitarian assistance, but it is bad that it happened under the circumstances and due to such tragic events.
But I say again, also in terms of Turkey's role, here in my opinion Turkey also has something to choose, because we hear that Turkey is trying or at least, maybe we are misreading the message. As you mentioned, why is Turkey also discussing the issues of the South Caucasus with the United States? Because our perception is that Turkey, at least the messages are like that, Turkey is in favor of stability in the South Caucasus. We see that Turkey, at the level of both the President and the Minister of Foreign Affairs, is in favor of signing a peace treaty between Armenia and Azerbaijan. And if we understand these messages correctly, at least either we understand that maybe this also means a certain balance in Turkey's relations in the South Caucasus or maybe we understand it the wrong way. But on the other hand, any effort that will contribute to the signing of a peace treaty between Armenia and Azerbaijan will certainly be useful. However, we must also take into account that Armenia and Azerbaijan are currently working in a bilateral format, but on the other hand, we also want our international partners to be aware of what is happening in the peace process, and we also share our information with them.
T24, Barçın Yinanç - Everyone, of course, had the opportunity to ask one question, but if you would like to convey something to the Turkish society, to convey some message, you are welcome.
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - Yes, I would like to. Do you know what surprised me with the way you started your speech? You said that you have an expression: “Children drink first, adults speak first.” The issue is that we also have that expression. I must say that this is the most surprising part of my contacts with Turkish representatives for me, because during meetings, negotiations, diplomatic discussions with various representatives, perhaps there is also such a regional custom, we constantly refer to our folk proverbs.
Without exaggeration, there have probably been at least three or four cases when, in conversations with Turkish representatives, either I said that there is such a proverb in Armenia and I quoted it, and the Turkish interlocutor said, you know what, we also have such a proverb, or the Turkish representative said, you know, we have such a saying, and I also said, but you know what, we say it too. Now I was very surprised when you said the very first words, you talked about the fact that they say in your country, “children dring first, adults speak first.” This is an expression that is widely spread in Armenia, and I have heard this expression thousands of times from our elders, and I myself, having already become a parent and in the status of an adult, have used it thousands of times in my interactions with our children. If this could be perceived as a message, I think it is a pretty good message. Thank you very much," Pashinyan stated.
