IRIB - In the name of Allah, I thank you, Mr. Prime Minister, for accepting the invitation of the Islamic Republic of Iran's Radio and Television for this interview. Let us start the conversation from bilateral relations. The relations between Iran and Armenia go back more than a thousand years and those relations have always been considered unique. At the same time, bot countries have capacities that have not yet been utilized for developing relations. Please tell us how the developing relations with Iran is defined in Armenia's foreign policy.
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - I am thankful and happy about this opportunity. I always emphasize that the relations between the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Republic of Armenia are based on natural interests, and this is perhaps the guarantee that the relations between the two countries are in a strategic logic of development. We are happy to note that our relations are developing both at the political dialogue level and the economic cooperation level. We are pleased to see more tourists visiting from the Islamic Republic of Iran to the Republic of Armenia and vice versa, and our trade turnover is growing at natural rates.
Of course, there are also problems and obstacles that, if they did not exist, these relations might be even larger, particularly in the trade and economic sphere. But I also think that through cooperation with the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, we are able to achieve quite a good growth rate. I must also say that our trade turnover growth is equivalent to our economic growth, which is quite high. In this regard, I believe we should be satisfied with the level of relations we have and definitely work to make these relations even more effective.
IRIB – You said that Iran should take some specific steps for the development of relations. What exactly should Iran do?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - Look, I said that our relations are in the path of natural development, and I believe that both the government of Armenia and the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran are implementing everything necessary to ensure the development of relations. The growth of our trade turnover is the eveidence of this. I am also happy to emphasize that Iranian companies are quite widely represented in the Republic of Armenia. Particularly today, Iranian companies are involved in the construction of a new customs checkpoint between the Republic of Armenia and the Islamic Republic of Iran, and an Iranian company is successfully implementing the Agarak-Kajaran section of the North-South road. My assessment is that there is a will on the part of the Government of the Republic of Armenia and the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran to keep the development of relations based on natural interests on a natural trajectory.
IRIB - As you know, Iran-Armenia relations have serious adversaries, but what is important are the national interests of both countries. In your opinion, how should these relations be protected?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - The formula I mentioned, that is relations based on the natural interests of both countries, itself creates a certain protection for the development of relations. You know, in general, it must be noted that international relations are complex and have always been complex. In other words, we cannot mention a period in human history and say relations were simple at that time. Relationships are always complex, and there is always a desire to do more, and this desire to do more leads to development and growth.
It is important to note that we are sensitive towards the interests of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and the Islamic Republic of Iran is also sensitive to our interests. I believe we should focus on the fact of our relations being based on natural interests, which makes our relations organic, vivid, and developing. In this sense, I am always inclined to focus on positive factors in our relations with the Islamic Republic of Iran because if we focus on negative factors, which, as you note, exist and negatively impact relations, these factors are no secret, including the complex relationships between Iran and several Western countries with which we also have good relations. We try to take into account those sensitive interests of the Islamic Republic of Iran and not to create confrontations in our processes, including for the reason that developing relations with Iran serves our natural interests.
IRIB - Your government is believed to be pro-Western. Doesn't this policy contradict... Is there a concern that this process, pro-Westernism, will affect your relations with the Islamic Republic of Iran?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - Our government has adopted and implements a balanced and balancing foreign policy, and this formulation does not imply or even excludes any policy of ''...ism'' in the foreign policy sphere. Therefore, the foreign policy of the Republic of Armenia is and should increasingly be based on our country's state interests. This is our general approach.
After the non-violent, velvet, popular revolution in Armenia in 2018, these assessments became more acute and frequent. But if we look back at the dynamics of relations between the Republic of Armenia and the Islamic Republic of Iran since 2018, I do not think that the dynamics of relationship development in the last seven years are inferior to any previous seven-year periods. On the other hand, it must be noted that the Republic of Armenia has been a member state of the Council of Europe since 2000, which means Armenia has very strong ties with Europe. If saying "West" we mean Europe, Armenia is also a member of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. Moreover, after the people's non-violent, velvet revolution of 2018, we have adopted a democratic reform agenda and have been actively cooperating with the European Union, the Council of Europe, and so on.
At the same time, we pay great attention to our regional policy, noting that each country in our region has its own vision of development, governance model, and political view ideology. We respect every people's and state's sovereign right to determine their own development path. This regional diversity also creates opportunities for us to be integrated not only with the West but also with the East.
But on the other hand, this regional diversity also creates opportunities for us to be integrated not only with the West, but also with the East. We do not want our relations with the East to diminish or weaken; we want these relations to deepen. We want our relations with the Islamic world to continue to deepen. In this regard, our relations with the Islamic Republic of Iran are very important, and we want our relations with the Islamic world to continue deepening, because as I said, this stems from our balanced and balancing foreign policy.
I can make such an ambitious assertation that our relations with others pose no threat to the Islamic Republic of Iran, and I hope and am sure that there is no threat to the Republic of Armenia in the relations of the Islamic Republic of Iran with other third parties. It is this understanding that creates natural conditions for the deepening of our relations.
IRIB - This question arose in my mind, if any threat is made against the Islamic Republic of Iran by Western countries, what will be your actions in that case?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - It is necessary to clarify what you mean by saying threat, but we have said that the Republic of Armenia will not be involved in any action against the Islamic Republic of Iran. In other words, our natural interests are precisely the factor that makes us mutually sensitive to each other's state interests. Iran's stability is extremely important to us, Iran's development is extremely important to us, and Iran's security is extremely important to us, and I don't even think there is a need to say why, because it is so obvious.
I said that we are interested in more and more tourists from the Islamic Republic of Iran coming to the Republic of Armenia. I am giving the simplest example so that the audience can understand what I am saying, I am not going into more complex content. We want more tourists from the Islamic Republic of Iran to come. When will this happen? When there is good natural economic development, stability, and security in the Islamic Republic of Iran. I brought this example, which is just a very small part of what I said, although a very important part, I brought this example to show what our perception is of our relations with the Islamic Republic of Iran.
But on the other hand, I also want to say that we must mutually see the opportunities. You spoke about unused opportunities, but we also need to highlight what those unused opportunities are. Specifically, in the North-South trade and economic direction, for example, the Republic of Armenia and the Islamic Republic of Iran have a much greater potential for cooperation, and we are now working on this. On the other hand, we can say that the Republic of Armenia is perhaps the shortest, the most reliable path for the Islamic Republic of Iran to the west and north, and we are having discussions on these topics with our Iranian partners, and these are issues that can be further expressed if there is trust between the two countries and their governments. And I am happy to note that in our interactions at the highest level, we record that there is trust between the governments of the two countries. Trust does not mean that we absolutely look at everything the same way or have the same interpretation of everything. No, trust means that we are mutually familiar with each other's train of thought regarding our relations and regional relations, and we have a certain understanding of that train of thought.
IRIB - You recently signed a strategic cooperation agreement with the United States. Considering the bitter experience we have had with such countries, how hopeful are you that it will be implemented?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - I already said that under the logic of balanced and balancing foreign policy, we are developing our relations with all our partners, and our relations with the United States are not new, and yes, we have signed a strategic partnership document, which was signed quite recently, and we must take that document as an agenda and try to implement it.
Moreover, it is very important to note that this is a public document, and I emphasize this to make our intentions transparent for our neighbors, partners, and our region. We hope that this agreement will be implemented and brought to life, and in the context of this cooperation, no threats will be formed or added for our region, but on the contrary, the opportunities that have always existed will be further highlighted. This is of course not easy, but as I said, it has never been easy and will never be easy, we simply need to find ways, paths, and will to create and use these opportunities.
IRIB - The difficulty, the problem, is not Armenia, but the US, which is not fulfilling its commitments.
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - In all our relations we are trying to take into account our regional interests as well, and we will continue to be guided by this approach.
IRIB – What's your assessment of the relations between Europe and the USA after Trump coming to power?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - Well, you know, the new administration was formed in the United States just a month ago, and the formation of a new administration and relations with the new administration are an adaptation phase for all countries. It is after this adaptation phase that these relations should be evaluated.
IRIB - Considering the challenges associated with the transit route from Azerbaijan to Nakhichevan, please tell us what is Armenia’s general policy regarding this route, why has it not been signed yet, and what red lines exist in Armenia?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - You are aware that we have developed the “Crossroads of Peace” project, which is largely about unblocking all transport routes and economic ties in our region. The reopening of the railway between Armenia and Azerbaijan is a very important topic in this context. And, of course, in this context, the restoration of the railway connection from Azerbaijan to Azerbaijan, that is, or from Western Azerbaijan through the territory of the Republic of Armenia to Nakhichevan and from the Republic of Armenia to Azerbaijan, or rather, through the territory of Nakhichevan to Armenia, are also important.
Did I manage to present clearly? from Azerbaijan to Azerbaijan through the territory of Armenia and from Armenia to Armenia through the territory of Azerbaijan. And we, quite recently, made a very specific proposal to Azerbaijan to solve this issue, and in the first stage we are talking about the implementation of railway cargo transportation. Of course, we believe that this issue should be solved with respect for the territorial integrity, jurisdiction and sovereignty of the countries. And the solution that we have proposed, we believe, fully satisfies this condition.
In addition, it is very important that it also meets the condition of carrying out full, complete cargo transportation, that is, these cargo transportations are carried out without obstacles, etc., and so on. Of course, the nuance here is that today there is a connection from Azerbaijan to Nakhichevan through the territory of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and we also say that in essence, our ideas are such that the conditions that the Islamic Republic of Iran offers to Azerbaijan, we are also ready to offer the same conditions, of course, taking into account the peculiarity that in this case it is not only about railway cargo transportation from Azerbaijan through the territory of Armenia to Azerbaijan, but also from Armenia through the territory of Azerbaijan to Nakhichevan.
We are also ready to make certain simplifications, of course, on the principle of reciprocity. But here it is very important to also note what will happen in the event of the implementation of this project. This will also have a very positive impact on Armenia-Iran relations, because in this context it means that both Azerbaijan and Armenia will be able to use each other's territories for international railway freight transportation.
You know that if these communication routes are opened, we will have an Armenia-Iran railway, which will significantly deepen our economic relations. And at the same time, Azerbaijan will have the opportunity to have full-fledged railway freight transportation through the territory of the Republic of Armenia to Turkey and vice versa, which means that both Armenia and Azerbaijan will be fully integrated into the international railway network. But at the same time, I want to say again, this will also significantly deepen trade and economic relations between Iran and Armenia.
When I say that for the Islamic Republic of Iran, the route through Armenia to the west might be the shortest and most convenient, currently we don't have the possibility of implementing railway transportation. The issue of constructing a railway between Armenia and Iran has been discussed for a long time, but due to the terrain, such a railway would require extremely large investments, and under current conditions, there is no substantiation that potential cargo transportation, even in the long run, would compensate for those expenses. However, with the implementation of the ''Crossroads of Peace'' project, we would have a railway connection to the Persian Gulf, the Gulf of Oman, and we could connect the Islamic Republic of Iran through Armenia's territory to the Black Sea and further west.
This is a very important project, and I want to emphasize that we are very active and seriously committed to its implementation, including routes from Azerbaijan's western regions through Armenia to Nakhichevan and from Armenia to Meghri from Yeraskh. At the same time, I want to highlight the key international context. Today, there is a global transportation crisis, also related to the situation around Ukraine. Enormous volumes of cargo are waiting for the opportunity to flow from west to east, from north to south. If these regional transportation and economic communications open, the cargo volume would be so large that infrastructure in Armenia, Iran, Azerbaijan, and Turkey would not be sufficient to serve the entire flow. This also provides a great opportunity to think about new infrastructure projects for regional cooperation.
IRIB - Some countries have expressed some opinion that third countries should monitor the roads at this crossroads or that it should be done by the UN. What is your opinion, how do you assess it?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - If we interpret the principles I mentioned a moment ago: sovereignty, jurisdiction, full respect for territorial integrity, if we answer your question through this interpretation, the answer is as follows: the talk about the presence of third forces is...
IRIB - That is, they should be present there as observers on behalf of a third country.
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - If we interprete what I said, it means that the talk about third forces is unacceptable for the Republic of Armenia. That is, we do not see such a need and there is no such need naturally. Let me say more, look, there is a lot of talk about it and there are some speculations, but I want to emphasize again that the Republic of Armenia has never undertaken any obligation, neither in writing nor orally, never made any verbal agreement and has not agreed that our sovereignty, jurisdiction, territorial integrity in our territory would be limited in any way, either by the logic of transport routes or by any other logic. Even if there are some allegations about this, these allegations have no basis and have no relation to reality.
IRIB - You have announced that you will sign a peace treaty with Azerbaijan. Why has it not been signed yet?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – Because there are still two articles in the draft peace treaty on which we have not yet been able to reach an agreement, and we continue to work in that direction.
IRIB - We are standing on the threshold of Nowruz, the Iranian New Year. What is your message to the people of Iran on this occasion?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - I wish the people of Iran prosperity, development, peace, happiness, which is what I wish the people of Armenia and the Republic of Armenia. In other words, I wish the Islamic Republic of Iran and the people of Iran, the friendly brotherly people, the same as I wish the Republic of Armenia and its people. And of course, taking this opportunity, I would like to congratulate the Islamic Republic of Iran, the friendly people of Iran, and my colleagues from the Islamic Republic of Iran on the occasion of this important holiday.
IRIB - Thank you very much, Mr. Prime Minister, for giving us your time. In turn, I wish you and the people of Armenia success. Thank you very much.
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – Thank you very much.
